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TYRES
Jun 24, 2009 13:14:26 GMT
Post by gerryrichards on Jun 24, 2009 13:14:26 GMT
Apart from the driver, power and weight (and maybe even above them), tyres are the single most important determinant of likely performance on track. For the difference they may they are also relatively cheap. They're also one of the potentially most contentious issues in our plans.
Tyre regs for the HTS must take account of:
-existing racers and what they run -costs -the need to keep some degree of levelness in the playing field, especially if we include more 'specialist cars' -existing series' regulations in case we need to 'piggyback into an existing series to give us a starting point (e.g. Classic Sports Car Club Future Classics Series or Swinging 60s).
Can I propose in light of this that our starting position on tyres should be:
Any list 1a or list 1b, or Dunlop Historics
Implications/rationale:
List 1a/1b/Dumlop tyres are widely used on existing members' cars (including those who already race).
This gives a wide choice, although in reality many people may choose the proven list 1b tyres.
At around £60-£70 a corner this may involve expenditure if you have to buy new tyres especially for this, but this is small compared with your likely overall budget.
People wanting to run specialist vehicles need to change if they are currently on slicks, a relatively minor adjustment all things considered. I and other HTS members can also help in chassis tuning to suit.
This gives me scope to approach a range of tyre manufacturers about supporting us, which may come to nothing but I want to try.
It retains flexibility in terms of us approching existing series about piggybacking into their series as a way of initially launching our 1-litre class (not the end goal of the HTS but might be a useful or necessary interim plan).
Cheers
Gerry
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TYRES
Jun 24, 2009 14:08:31 GMT
Post by racingclan1 on Jun 24, 2009 14:08:31 GMT
Gerry,
Didn't see this section and have posted a bit about tyres in the Championship Rules section. Feel free to transfer it over if you think it would be appropriate.
Pete Richards
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TYRES
Jun 24, 2009 14:14:41 GMT
Post by racingclan1 on Jun 24, 2009 14:14:41 GMT
I have no problems with changing from the slicks I use in Europe to the List 1b tyres I use in the UK. In fact I don't change anything. Perhaps I should but I'm probably not a good enough driver to be able to tell the difference!
If List 1a and 1b tyres are adopted I'd have no problems but should it be decided to allow spaceframes then I can see problems in getting appropriate sizes for the slicks they are currently using.
Pete Richards
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TYRES
Jun 24, 2009 15:15:16 GMT
Post by gerryrichards on Jun 24, 2009 15:15:16 GMT
Hi Pete,
Yes on reflection I realised this should've been on the 'Rules' section, so I've moved it.
Interesting that you move from the list 1b to circuit slicks without problems, as you're clearly a 'press on' driver judging by your results. That says a lot for he stickiness of good list 1b tyres, although no doubt super soft compound 'hillclimb' slicks might be a differenr propostion from the circuit Michelin slicks you use.
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TYRES
Jun 24, 2009 18:07:40 GMT
Post by rodwell on Jun 24, 2009 18:07:40 GMT
Assuming most people will be running 13" wheels the widest tyre I can find is a Kumho V70A (list 1b). they list a 235/45R13 which would fit on a 9" rim. My Davrian uses 10"rear and 8" front and I would think many space frames use the same . I'm not sure you need such a wide tyre with around 100hp but if a much smaller wheel is used it does look a bit daft.
So a list of acceptable tyres is good but I think the size should be free
Stuart
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TYRES
Jun 24, 2009 20:55:21 GMT
Post by limjamrace on Jun 24, 2009 20:55:21 GMT
Flippin heck...I'm at a dilemma into what way to go with engines (forced induction or N/A) still...Now your on about tyres!!
I'll think i'll stick by my guns and see what equates in 2011!
Till then it is the Hills for me... Although.... Do i stay in class N ?..That means getting the car road insured..mot'd.. and buying a GE3 camshaft with all the hassle of getting the head suited to fit an extended cam carrier! Then buying tyres the same as the Cairneys!! Falkan Zies whatsits! Perhaps as i still will need a trailer in class N i might as well jump to Modsaloons up to 1400cc and give it forced induction! That means slicks ,but no Mot or the bother of car insurance!
Then come 2011 i'll sell it all up for 20000 GBP and use the Fiat with it's 903cc 50bhp engine for HTS!
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TYRES
Jun 24, 2009 22:03:42 GMT
Post by racingclan1 on Jun 24, 2009 22:03:42 GMT
Why do you need work on the head for a GE3. I run the same using a modified sport carrier and have done for a couple of years now.
Pete Richards
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TYRES
Jun 24, 2009 22:20:37 GMT
Post by limjamrace on Jun 24, 2009 22:20:37 GMT
Don't you have the extended follower tubes installed under the carrier to stop the followers falling out the bottom due to 0.385 lift? The top of the head needs relieving to accomodate!
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TYRES
Jun 25, 2009 7:30:45 GMT
Post by gerryrichards on Jun 25, 2009 7:30:45 GMT
Hi folks, back to the original topic, how does everyone feel about the 1a/1b/Dunlop suggestion (see first post).
Cheers
Gerry
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mark
New member
Professional Geek
Posts: 9
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TYRES
Jun 25, 2009 8:42:44 GMT
Post by mark on Jun 25, 2009 8:42:44 GMT
I don't like lists of tyres, never have. It's one of the reasons I sprint in modprod and not in roadgoing. Can you even get a 155R12 in a tyre on a list?
Having looked at Dunlop's website I'm not at all clear which tyres you are referring to as "Historics."
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TYRES
Jun 25, 2009 9:33:16 GMT
Post by limjamrace on Jun 25, 2009 9:33:16 GMT
Happy Birthday Mark!
Dunlop historic tyres!
I think Gerrio is refering to the gung ho boys on the historic HSCC scene..The tyres are in Vince frosts words not so nice! From what i gather they are reproductions of the 1960's type racing tyre that were the thing to have then.. In the theme of historical nature it is deemed for competitors to use these tyres. I may have all this terribly wrong with my interpretation,but to have very expensive vehicles with very powerful engines and running gear using very outdated tyres is damn right dangerous! Maybe i'm talking numb nuts here,but in my way of thinking then the first bit of contact with the road should be the best all round compromise if we are trying to level out things! The whole context of this HTS is to get people like the founder able to compete with a 1000cc vehicle against other such like machines.. This is getting all so complicated to me...The engine situation alone and now tyres! I still say lets have a bring what you have situation...Anglesy will test the water for us as to who and what is around rather than hopefulls (probably like me) proposing what should be allowed and what not! Reliable people like Simon Hulse who like Gerry is in the same frame of mind ...He said he would willingly put a cage in his G15 if HTS is going to be like Anglesy Car Club... Hope i'm making sense here because i am have trouble putting this one over! David L.
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TYRES
Jun 25, 2009 18:27:10 GMT
Post by gerryrichards on Jun 25, 2009 18:27:10 GMT
Yes, Dunlop CR65 racing tyres, as already fitted to a number of our members with a '5' (i.e. race ready!) rating.
I'm not a fan of list 1a/1b per se - they are just a starting point and already in use by many other series. Whether we use them or not, shall I change the tack of this thread slightly to:
How about we run a 'no slicks' policy, with details of exactly which treaded tyres can be used to come later?
Cheers
Gerry
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TYRES
Jun 25, 2009 20:47:08 GMT
Post by limjamrace on Jun 25, 2009 20:47:08 GMT
After 9 years of slicks with Karting i'm sick to death with them! On a off day changing to wets to slicks to wets x 5 is a bit of a nuisance! If it rains all day then you get a chance of processing the wets,but usual a dry line comes about and in no time your wets are shredded! If slicks are allowed then of course you have to have wets or maybe intermediate!..So much hassle and the need for a lot of room in the tow vehicle! The list 1a & b seems a pain also! I've been thinking long and hard today....I'm at the point of where i am going and buying tyres for HGH.. Decided to go for a Mot situation despite the worries of maybe being refered to a engineers report or whatever they do because of the ...innovations to HGH . The mods are actually stretching the imagination of what is a Hillman Imp as it left the factory! To get there(G&N motors of Long Eaton) i'm buying what Stuart & Andrew Cairney have Falkan Zieus ZE12 912 something (list 1a). If the MOT gives great problems then i will say stuff it and go to List B and actually ditch Class N of the HSA(imp enginged vehicles N/A up to 1040cc) and do Modsports ,but without the slicks..My fancy is Yoko A048 advans..Anyone suggest anything better? David L.
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TYRES
Jun 25, 2009 22:49:30 GMT
Post by racingclan1 on Jun 25, 2009 22:49:30 GMT
I posted a bit about my experience with slicks in the 'Make your mind up time' thread before this thread was started. Check it out.
Pete Richards
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mark
New member
Professional Geek
Posts: 9
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TYRES
Jun 26, 2009 12:28:53 GMT
Post by mark on Jun 26, 2009 12:28:53 GMT
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